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345 | Interview with Jerry Roth on PTR - your deepest fears into unforgettable stories!

October 28, 2022

345 | Interview with Jerry Roth on PTR - your deepest fears into unforgettable stories!
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Jerry Roth is an award-winning author of Bottom Feeders, a bestseller from Sunbury Press. Following up this success, he released a psychological thriller, On the Tip of Her Tongue, one year later. The author currently lives in a converted 1908 Catholic church in Ohio.
His writing career began with his award-winning screenplay, Gray Matter. Switching gears, Jerry created the critically successful Disc Golf website, Inkslingers DG, and wrote for the Disc Golf Pro Tour in 2017.

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Transcript

Unknown Speaker  0:04  
Welcome to positive talk radio. Our goal is simple to explore evolving ideas, one conversation at a time. So stay with us. Right now we present. And boy, we got an engaging conversation today. I do have to say, No, I'm very excited about our guest today because you know, Halloween is coming up this weekend. And so this is going to be a an ode to Halloween, we'll call it and our guest today, his name is Jerry Roth. He's an author. And he's got a book that just came out this week, and it's called throwing shadows, a dark collection. And we're going to talk to him for the entire hour. I'm hoping if you want to tune in and you want to comment, you're welcome to do that. And I'm looking forward to talking to him because he is quite a writer. And, and we're gonna talk about all that. Jerry, how are you?

Unknown Speaker  1:02  
Great. Thank you for having me, Kevin. I'm excited. This is I've been I've been waiting to do the show all week. So I'm

Unknown Speaker  1:08  
ready. While you're you're you have been like doing a bunch of podcasts because, as you know, in order to market your book, and to get it out, you've got to talk to a bunch of folks. And so yeah,

Unknown Speaker  1:21  
my book came out Tuesday. So I saved the best for last. So I got you now so

Unknown Speaker  1:25  
Oh, Oh, you're so kind. But by the way, if you want to comment again, you can you can just put a comment into the comment box. And then I'll show it to Jerry. And if you got a question, or you got something you'd like to say about one of the other books he's written because he's not a virgin writer of sorts, he's been doing this for a while, by the way, what got you into writing in the first place?

Unknown Speaker  1:49  
You know, when I was a kid, I just love to tell stories. I, I remember when I was a small kid, I wanted to be the first thing I remember, even as a small age is wanting to be a talk show host kind of like yourself. I wanted to be Johnny Carson, that was the big thing when I was a little kid and I get my tape recorder out, and I would get all my friends lined up and do interviews with them. So but you know, I had to use my imagination. You know, somebody was Madonna. At one point, somebody was, you know, maybe Michael Jackson, who was big back then. And I would come up with a script on the spot. And what I've asked him what I talked to him about, and that was kind of my first introduction to like storytelling, I was like, Oh, I can, you know, I can throw somebody I can, you know, get their attention. And then I make the tape, then I'd make of course make all my friends and family listen to it for hours on end of me endlessly being a talk show host. So that was kind of my foray into into wanting to be a writer.

Unknown Speaker  2:49  
Have you thought about doing more talk shows and being like having a podcast about about the dark things and stuff like that, and then horror writing and that sort of,

Unknown Speaker  3:00  
you know, I'm gonna leave it to the good people like you guys who are good at doing a podcast, I'm better as a guest than I am ever be a host. I felt like, my talent will be wasted there. It's like, Ah, no, but you do a better job than I would. While I

Unknown Speaker  3:16  
thank you very much for that. And then it's, it's fun to talk to you because you know, positive talk radio, we generally talk about, you know, positive things and that sort of thing. And we're, and we're by gum, we're gonna make this a positive expression, because we're going to talk a lot about you and how you got into this type of writing and also the fact that it's not you don't do it, you know, you do it more in a way of like dark shadows and, and has some real meat to it, rather than the slasher movies where, you know, and that sort of thing, right? Yeah,

Unknown Speaker  3:51  
I think a lot of my books, no matter what I'm writing, in what genre I'm writing, I still like to have a character fleshed out and have a real have a real sinner to him to be real people. You know, this the book that I wrote now, it definitely is kind of a throwback and has a vibe of Tales from the Crypt or the dark side, and it has four elements. But there's, there's characters that live and breathe within the pages. And that's kind of what I wanted to bring to a book. And it's not that the people aren't doing it now. But I felt I wanted to bring something nostalgic back home as a kid of the 80s and 90s. So, you know, that was the kind of horror that I grew up with, you know, I didn't you know, we have of course, we had the Friday the 13th movies and all those slasher films. But you know, those were like, you know, going into a haunted house or roller coasters. They were like, exhilaration for that moment, but they, you know, they didn't really stay stay with you a long time. And I wanted to like something in my books to actually kind of rest with you a while when you put it down. You kind of remember it and you kind of think about it and you think, Oh, that story. You know, that was disturbing, but it maybe it meant something to me.

Unknown Speaker  5:00  
More on the style of like a Stephen King.

Unknown Speaker  5:03  
Absolutely. He, uh, you know, I say this in every interview, so hopefully he maybe he donates to a friend of mine or something. But he is He was my idol. He's somebody, he was my first horror writer that I picked up his book, you know, as a paperback. So many years ago, I'd go to, there's a local paper back and, you know, you're young teenager, your pocket money is no doesn't happen too easily. And they were like a quarter of book. And I come out of there with handfuls of Stephen King and Dean are coons books. And I would devour them. And he kind of, I cut my teeth on his writing. And he kind of showed me that, you know, you could make a living as a writer, and it's not all bad. You know, there are some positives to bring out of horror writing, you know, there there are lessons to be learned even in scary or dark, dark, dark books.

Unknown Speaker  5:55  
I'm wouldn't even necessarily call your writing, even horror writing. I know, it's the category that you're in. But yeah, it is. It is a fully invested story about what happens to people and, and some negative things happen to people sometimes.

Unknown Speaker  6:12  
Yeah, I mean, you know, either nine different stories, and they're all short, and they have their own little setting and scene. And, you know, there are some horrific things that happen to some bad things, nothing like you know, crazy or are rated. But there are some horrible things that happen to people. But I think that what I've tried to instill in the book is that, you know, that you need to go beyond the fear a lot of the characters have to they have something they have to accomplish, there's something that they're faced with a challenge that's scary, or frightening. And, you know, no matter if they fail, or if they succeed, they overcome their fear. And they accomplish at least that and I think that's what I'm trying to bring, you know, to the horrors Andhra.

Unknown Speaker  6:57  
See, and that is the positive angle that you're bringing to it rather than, because, you know, in the in the 80s, and 90s, I used to watch Halloween, Halloween, 27, Halloween, 35 you know, whatever. 13 you get tired of theme slasher kind of don't go in the woods, kids, that's probably not gonna. Have you seen that commercial that they have been now, that

Unknown Speaker  7:25  
is great. That is great. And, you know, there there are troops there for a reason, you know, I think that, you know, the the girl falling down right before way, you know, those things, they bring the tension, they're easy, they're easy tension grabbers. And I think that's why you know, people they cling to those, they love them, you know, in the same way, they probably love, you know, a pizza, the, you know, that something, something familiar to them. You know, but so I can't say anything bad about him, because I grew up with all those horror films, and I like them. But when it comes to books, I want a little bit more substance to them, even if it's something you know, like a short story of mine, I want to try to, you know, let people walk away with a feeling of something a little bit more than just a scare.

Unknown Speaker  8:13  
So you have to ask me one of the biggest burning questions out there and that is, why is it always the girl that falls down?

Unknown Speaker  8:21  
I guess it's the old damsel in distress, you know, you know, you want to, you want to you want that's the person that you want to save. If you're a man, you want to save the woman and, and I guess, you know, used to be in the old days, if you're a woman, that's who you want to save you. You know, I think that the landscape is changing. Now, I don't think that it's so cut and dry about who's saves who and who's the hero. So things have things have taken a turn, I think that's kind of what I've done in my book, like half of the narratives, in my short story, our protagonist, that are women that are strong, and they're capable, and they're trying their best to, you know, succeed in something scary.

Unknown Speaker  9:03  
I'll tell you, those are the ones that are the scariest to me, are the ones where the person that you don't expect it at all is the one that is either deranged, or they've got a problem, you know, whatever it is, and how are we worked it out in the story, but you know, but it's, it's, it's an art form. And it really, you know, because of its, if it's done properly, right, especially in when you're writing, it's difficult to write it in a way that you're putting a picture in people's minds, right? You're being very colorful with the language and and stuff like that. Where did you learn to be able to write so that people could actually kind of, you know, like, see the movie in your head? Right?

Unknown Speaker  9:49  
Well, I mean, it's an interesting story, because I didn't start I mean, I've always wanted to be a writer since I was a child. My parents would read to me every night so I kind of I got that from them. And, luckily, but when I, when I started writing professionally, I started writing screenplays. That's where I cut my teeth on writing movies. So with movies, you have to get your point across with the most minimal of words, you know, you only have 110 pages to fill a whole movie screen. So you have to be, you know, very selective with your words. And, and, you know, in when I switched over to writing novels, I mean, I was in heaven, I was able to use as many words as I want. And I even had to cut back on some of my editors were like, you know, you can't your, your being to flourish with your words here. You know, less is more. And so, yeah, I had to actually rein it in a bit, because I, you know, I was under the constraints of screenwriting for so many years, that I was excited that I could actually, you know, kind of put descriptions of things in put an atmosphere to things.

Unknown Speaker  10:57  
So did you ever write a screenplay that we might that got turned into a movie that we might recognize,

Unknown Speaker  11:03  
you know, I, there was a chance that could have there's a script that I actually won a bunch of screenwriting awards, and somebody optioned to make, but I was a young writer, to be honest with you, and they wanted to make too many changes to it. And I just couldn't do I mean, now, I mean, I'm a different person I can, I can understand the collaborative effort it takes to write books, and to, to make movies, but at that young age, you know, and I felt like, you know, I had success. I'm, I'm winning Screen Awards here. Why do I, why would I want to give up anything? And so I, that's kind of the reason why I kind of put the screenplays aside, and kind of did novels because it was for me, and you know, I can write something, put it in a drawer. And you know, and revisited if I want to?

Unknown Speaker  11:52  
Well, you know, that reminds me of the story of Sylvester Stallone. Right. And Rocky, exactly. He he took the same tact as you did, which was no way this was my story, and we're not gonna mess with a man. Right? Well

Unknown Speaker  12:06  
see he he wants to do I think really the one of the from what I hear is he wanted to actually direct so that was his his, you know, that was his dream. I was I was even worse, I should have said, You know what, here it is? I'm not, you know, do what you want with it. Because they're going to anyways, you mean, basically when you're a screenwriter you write for the movie, but it's the director's vision anyway, so he's going to rewrite it and change it and do anything. And I didn't know any better. So I guess I could have had a movie out there at this point. But you know, you live and you learn.

Unknown Speaker  12:39  
While you're young man, you've got lots of time to come up with that particular one. But But now you've turned it on levels. And and you like that genre? You know, it's interesting. I was I did a interview with a 14 year old girl

Unknown Speaker  12:53  
Shanti. You know her? Yes, of course. Shanti. Herschend? Son, right. Yep. Yeah, Hershey years old, 16 novels.

Unknown Speaker  13:05  
It's, it's amazing. She can write we were talking about this. He can write 1000 words an hour is that a lot?

Unknown Speaker  13:14  
I mean, that is incredible. I will say, though, that she doesn't have a full time job. So she has time the rest of us, you know, I felt absolutely lazy if I was in the same room as her. But, you know, she doesn't at this point she doesn't have any kids to deal with in our house and family. So I say Good for her. I hope she writes, you know, 16 more. Now, I

Unknown Speaker  13:37  
want to ask you, because there are there's somebody in our audience that is going to is sitting there going, you know, I can be a writer, I know I can be a writer, I don't want to be a writer, I have no idea how I have no idea how to again, how would you? How would you suggest somebody that is starting to learn to write how to accomplish it?

Unknown Speaker  13:56  
Well, I always tell you, there are two kinds of people that write and one is a pantser, which means they just stream of consciousness, they write whatever they think, and they put it on the page. And then there's the planners, and they would put a structure to everything. And before they even write one word, they know exactly where their story is going. And I always think you know, and, and it used to be a bad word to be a pantser. You know, until like somebody like Stephen King came around. And I always tell young writers, I said, don't worry about what's on the page. Don't worry about the grammar. Don't worry about anything except just let it come out of your mind, write it to put it down on a paper. And you'll find that the end of the day, you've accomplished something. And it mattered to me that great, but you know what, every day that you do that, pretty soon, your skills are going to build up whether you like it or not.

Unknown Speaker  14:46  
You know, when she and she was saying that, and is this true for you as well, that she would start a novel and not know what it was where it was going to go or how it was going to be because the care actors were evolving during the course of her writing the novel, is that how it works for you?

Unknown Speaker  15:05  
Yet, sometimes, you know, it's not 100%, I would like I was saying to a friend of mine is that a lot of times, I won't start a novel until I know the ending, because that's what everybody gets wrong. You know, they don't have a good ending, they don't know where they're heading to. So I always like to, if I have a great ending, or good twist, or something that I know, man, that's, that's all I need to get going and get started. But I will say that my one of my last books that I did, I did that, and I started writing. And halfway through it, I changed the course of where that book was going to ending was gone. I was like, you know, an open water, and had to figure out, you know, start trading for my life, and figure out where that book was going. And I, you know, what, it was a happy surprise. And it turned it out. I think it's really one of my best books. So I'm happy that it did it.

Unknown Speaker  15:54  
How many of your written now,

Unknown Speaker  15:55  
I have written, I've probably written probably about six or seven. But I've only published three. So I'm kind of deciding, you know, I'm trying to pick my career choices wisely. And slowly, you know, sometimes they always say it's better to have written stuff in the drawer, kind of like a nest egg than it is to kind of throw it all out there. I know that there are a lot of writers now, especially with, you know, how Amazon is great about you can publish your own book. And there are people who can honestly put out a book a month, and I'm talking a full length novel in a month. And, and, you know, I think if you build that muscle up, you can probably probably do it and be successful at it. But I, I like to like kind of let my my work, say, think about my work wake up in the morning, Phil, like to see how's the scene going, I changed things around. If I move that fast, I just don't feel like I'd be able to keep the same quality, at least for myself.

Unknown Speaker  16:56  
Well, and because you've got to plan for it. And you've got to think about how it's going to play out. Right? I can, you know, I can't see, that must be a real gift to have this movie floating around in your head, have the gift to be able to write it down in some sort of logical order,

Unknown Speaker  17:12  
right? Well, it is it is a gift. And it's a curse. Because there are times when I have three books going around in your mind. And I see no come up of another book that I haven't even started yet. And I'm like, What is going on here? I got enough to think about the three books at once. So yeah, it's tough to be a writer just because, you know, there are there are writers that have no problem, they're if their book is gonna go on, or they have an even better idea. They'll put it aside and they'll start the new book. But I, I can't bring myself to do it. I feel like if I start a new book that other the other book kind of goes into the distant past. And then it becomes like somebody else wrote it, and I don't I can't really connect anymore.

Unknown Speaker  17:55  
Now I gotta ask you because I'm firmly I firmly believe this. Is that right? Like musicians? Do it songwriters? Do it? authors do it that you are being given the inspiration to write the words in there and to come up with a story does that? Is that how it works for you? Is it just does it just kind of appear? Or do Is it like a whole lot of hard work for you to get it done? You

Unknown Speaker  18:21  
know, I mean, the kernel of an idea is something that you can never explain. You could be watching TV or cutting the grass doing dishes. And that idea is just going to come to you so you can't force that, you know, that's kind of the goldmine, they when that comes no rest of this stuff is you putting in the work? So the ideas usually are they come from somewhere in the ether that we have no ideas? At least I don't.

Unknown Speaker  18:48  
And do they always. Now you write you write a lot of horror stuff. So it's not really horror, we got to come up with a better title.

Unknown Speaker  18:58  
I wrote three books. And this one is more of a vintage field kind of horror. My set my my last book that I wrote is a thriller, kind of like a mystery thriller. And my first book I would say is more in the history, the mystery horror, it's got some gory parts. So it's pretty scary and it's got some some some rough scenes just because it's like really hardcore or, but I always still wanted to have characters in there and a mystery that you have to kind of figure out as you go.

Unknown Speaker  19:27  
What is the best kind of writing to do horror Is it is it if you're really explicit? Or is if you leave it to the reader's imagination a lot of times

Unknown Speaker  19:37  
that's always the taste of the reader and and it always changes and comes and goes because I'm you know, I'm in a lot of groups and Amman obviously social media and I've listened to other writers and what they like and especially readers, you know, there there is a growing number of really hardcore, you know, writers of horror that they want, they want them They have all the grotesque parts, they want body horror, they want things visually that are that are frightening, you know, even con, you know, as a concept. So I think things are kind of moving that direction. It's, there are obviously there are writers that that are kind of more like me, though, that want to put suspense in there that like twists and turns, and keep the readers guessing. I feel like, you know, if you're on a journey with me, I want to kind of like a roller coaster. I want to swing you around and knock you left and right and make you kind of question some of the early scenes. That's kind of fun for me.

Unknown Speaker  20:39  
Yeah, I'd say it's kind of like when Spielberg did jaws. That was a that was a horror movie. To be sure, because it was very gory, but but it also had the popcorn scenes. Yeah. The first time I saw Jaws, I was in a drive in. Oh, wow. And I could see the cars in front of me, of course. And then when there was a particularly scary scene that they were, where they were going to a sunken ship. And then this head pops out. And that was a popcorn thrower, and you can see and hear people's popcorn going up in the air.

Unknown Speaker  21:17  
Well, it's funny you said I was like, I saw, like, I think was this past summer that they're starting to? Do you know how to do the backyard, you know, movie theaters now? Well, they have they have backyard movie theaters while you're inside a swimming pool, watching jaws? I don't know if I can even think about such a thing. You know, as brave as I think I am. I don't know you're watching your feet in water. While you're watching jaws come on.

Unknown Speaker  21:42  
You know, you try and talk yourself off the ledge. I'm in a friggin pool for heavens. It's not good. There's not going to be a shark that's going to come get me here. But then you go to like I went to kawaii and was doing some snorkeling on a place called the caverns, I think. And that was in the northern part of the island. And they had all these holes in the coral, you couldn't see down into the holes. And so as you're snorkeling along, and you're going, so what if there is something underneath there, and so and you can scare the hell out of yourself. And that was like 30 years after I saw the movie,

Unknown Speaker  22:26  
it doesn't take much to tap into that human human fear that you have. It's like, it's really within arm's length of all of us. On any given moment, really?

Unknown Speaker  22:37  
It really is. So we're how's your writing? And are you cognizant of the fact that you want to keep it in a certain in a certain lane, if you will? And not go too dark? And not? And stuff? And do you employ humor? Is it at all?

Unknown Speaker  22:52  
Yeah, I mean, in the absurd way, it's not our comedy, I think, though, I always think that some of the hardest writing you do is, you know, scare someone or, or comedy, those two things, you know, you have to have a particular mindset and skill, kind of to set it up, you know, you're setting up a scene like you would in comedy, and you're doing the same thing with something, you know, scary, you know, you have to put the reader in the mind of, of where they're at, they're setting in, you know, what kind of danger is coming in, you know, you know, you put yourself in the every man category or every woman category, and say, you know, what would happen? You know, if I was in that same situation?

Unknown Speaker  23:31  
Oh, yeah, by the way, we're talking with Jerry Roth. And if you've got a question for him, or if you'd like to make a comment, you can feel free to put it into the chat, or under the comments, and all show to him and won't and we'll talk about it. So you're certainly welcome to do that if you'd like. And he's got the book that he has out this week. And it's called throwing shadows there, I had to do that. That's fine. And, and it's a collection of stories. And it's it's like one of those, what was it? It was the Twilight Zone the movie? Right?

Unknown Speaker  24:16  
That was great. Yeah. You know, when I was a kid, I just ate up all those you know, you know, something about being a kid your intention span, you know, it doesn't go away. There are some people who read books now. And they're like, their attention spans are not that long, even when I like, even my other books that are so much longer. Just going through the drafts 10 times and rereading. And I'm like, I don't know how people are doing this. I you know, this is crazy. So there's something to be said about short stories where you throw people right in the middle of the action. You try to scare their pants off, and then you get out and go right to the next one. So it's great for people who don't want to commit to you know, long form. Well, it

Unknown Speaker  24:57  
is and if it shorter then it's over. We're faster to write Yeah, if you're, if you're scared to death, you're the interviewer. So, but you enjoy this particular style of writing more than the others. Is that Is that why you do it? Do you think? Or is it just kind of just kind of how it presents in your head?

Unknown Speaker  25:18  
You mean the horror in general? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think it goes back to when I was a child, my parents would always watch, I mean, frightening movies. And they, you know, it was a different time different generation, and they didn't mind letting us young kids watch it with them. And I spent most of my time like, looking through my fingers at the different different scary movies that are presented to me. And something about that kind of stuck with me. And I wanted to kind of impart that kind of fear. I mean, I was exhilarated, but I was also frightened. And you know, you're when you're scared, but you're in a safe place. Those are the two best cop combinations you can have to give somebody, especially a book.

Unknown Speaker  25:59  
Oh, yeah, I was just, I talked to you last time. And as we were preparing for this interview about this new movie that's out. And it is, it's gone over the edge is so frightening that people are throwing up in the theater. Running Out in the popcorn is going everywhere. Oh, that. That's that? Is that what they were going for? Do you think?

Unknown Speaker  26:22  
Yeah, I think they have to ramp it up. I mean, I think you're trying to you're trying to give somebody goat you're always trying to get to the next level. And for me, like if when I always think back to all the scary movies that I've ever watched, The Exorcist to me is always going to be number one. There's nothing more frightening to me than a little girl possessed by a demon. You know, that's like, you. What, where else could you go besides that?

Unknown Speaker  26:49  
Oh, I was gonna mention the exorcist. Because that's, that's one that my children won't even watch.

Unknown Speaker  26:54  
Oh, yeah. I I've been slowly like, letting my kids watch a little bit scarier movies a little bit scary movies, you know, but I don't think I think they'd be out of the house before we watched that together. I don't I don't know. That's. That was a tough one.

Unknown Speaker  27:10  
Yes. And then the young like, poltergeists was not as bad as as that. Because it wasn't, you know, being being possessed by the devil is kind of a bad thing. Yeah. and stuff. And she was.

Unknown Speaker  27:25  
Yeah, and she did an amazing job. I mean, she was she was terrifying. I'm sorry. And there was no, that not many film characters have ever done as well as that little girl did. So yeah, my kudos to her.

Unknown Speaker  27:38  
I was in high school when that movie came out. And the lunch lady, one time served pea soup. And of course, if you're seeing that movie, then she projectile vomits at one point and it looks just like pea soup. And so nobody had pea soup, that thing?

Unknown Speaker  27:58  
Or if you know if you're at a really bad school, everybody's pretending to be throwing them up everywhere.

Unknown Speaker  28:07  
Exactly. And then the the book is doing well. And it came out how long did it take you to write this one.

Unknown Speaker  28:15  
This one is actually a labor of love. This one is a span of about 25 years. So I have nine stories. I wrote a couple that are brand new for the book. But a lot of them I've wrote over the over the span of my life and jotting down ideas and, and writing. The very first one came from my very first college class English class, they asked me to write a story. It was one of those creative writing classes. And I put ice cream man down in there it was it became part of the collection, which is strange that, you know, I never would have thought looking back in college, my first day of school, that it would end up in a published book. But there it is.

Unknown Speaker  28:56  
You know, it's interesting that you say that because I interviewed a author a couple of weeks ago, right? And she said, you know, my creative writing teacher told me I should go get a job because I'll never be a writer.

Unknown Speaker  29:10  
You know what, my, my, my counselor did that in high school, too. So great. Wherever she is out there. Thank you. You kind of motivated me to I guess, stop being lazy in school and get it together?

Unknown Speaker  29:25  
Well, I'm glad I'm glad that you did not take their advice.

Unknown Speaker  29:28  
Well, I wasn't ready to do a full time job in high school anyway. So it will I want to just live my parents longer in either way.

Unknown Speaker  29:35  
But do you see it takes a certain type of individual to be because I'm assuming you're working as well. Right? Yeah. So you've got a full time job and if you've got a family and and all of that it must be hard to come up with the time to be able to sit down and write it. Or do you have a Do you have like a schedule that you work out?

Unknown Speaker  29:54  
Well, if I'm good if I'm a good writer, I set out usually two hours a day Usually at night, when it's dark, and no one's around, but, you know, family and jobs and everything, they seem to be encroaching lately. So you have to sort of, you know, after a while, you set up a time to say, Listen, alright, this is my time, don't bother me. So I haven't done that I've been kind of lazy about that, for the last couple, you know, every time you put a new book out, all of your time is kind of driven towards, you know, the promotion and getting it out there and doing the marketing. So, I'm going back, I'm a third away through my new book. So I'm going back into writing, I gotta, I gotta get back into my next book,

Unknown Speaker  30:36  
is that because of that is your passion and that, that you feel like you're not complete? If you're not writing?

Unknown Speaker  30:42  
Well, you know, in a way, it's almost like therapy, everybody says that. And, and unless you're a writer, you don't really believe it. But you get a you exercise a lot of demons just by writing and you know, you can say what you want, you can feel what you want. And, and if you feel cathartic, at the end of a writing session, there's never a time where you don't put 1000 words on a page, and you further your manuscript that you don't feel like you've really accomplished something, I think you can't get that from anything else.

Unknown Speaker  31:10  
Now, do you write via computer? Or do you handwrite

Unknown Speaker  31:13  
I, I have done typewriters, I kind of go back and forth. I've done typewriters in the past. But man, it's just that you have to just rewrite it all. Again, I don't have a fancy editor that would be willing to, you know, transcribe a whole thing of on paper onto onto a word processor or computer for me. So I use the computer now.

Unknown Speaker  31:35  
And you find that it's easier with spellcheck, and with all of that stuff that the editing is less,

Unknown Speaker  31:42  
well, I mean, the editing is less for sure. But you know, you're distracted as a writer by the little, you know, the little red line that comes up, you know, in doesn't mean that you are wrong by putting that there, but it distracts you, you know, so I almost had to turn everything off all of the spell checks everything and just put it down on paper and think that I'm doing everything 100%, right. Because you could sit around and fix himself edit, you know, the whole session you're writing. And you'll just be you know, dragging your wheels trying to get something on the paper. So I tried to not do that anymore.

Unknown Speaker  32:19  
Do you ever write something and then look at it later and read it again and say, Boy, that really sucks?

Unknown Speaker  32:26  
I've done both I you know, I I've written things and said, man, you're so great. But you know, those times are few and far between compared to the you know, the ones you're like, yeah, that needs some work. That was I think,

Unknown Speaker  32:40  
well, and that's a positive way of looking at it rather than saying, Boy, this really sucks. So you know, that's, it's it needs work. But it's got potential, and it's got legs. And so this book that's coming out, you know, that just came out? Shadows? Is a 25 years in the making story. That's pretty cool.

Unknown Speaker  32:59  
Yeah, I mean, I guess I guess any writer who puts out an anthology or a collection, they're probably doing the same thing. I doubt that you know, that they're me, there are some people who just like short stories, no, write them and make their anthologies. But it's, it's really, it's really one of those things where you have different kinds of stories in your mind, you have long forms, you have shorter ones. And you really can't, you really can't decide the creativity of it, like a short story is always going to be a short story. You can you can add to it, you can try to enhance it, but it's going to, it's gonna fall flat. Because it's meant to be a short story, at least in my mind.

Unknown Speaker  33:40  
Have you thought about coaching or teaching other people to learn to write,

Unknown Speaker  33:47  
you know, I, I try to teach my kids they have they have a already have a knack for writing. And they're really good at it. But they don't want to do it. They don't want to do what their parents do. So I see the talent in them. My daughter, for instance, is like the most creative person, she has better story ideas than I do. And my son, he's amazing writer, he's his first. He's a going into the eighth grade. And he's already started in college. So he's writing his first English classes now. And he's an amazing writer. But he doesn't want to do that for a living. So I think I'm better at maybe like being a role model than I am kind of a teacher to

Unknown Speaker  34:25  
them. Well, and I'll tell you, if your kids are anything like my kids, it's like, I keep on saying, you know, maybe you should come with me on the podcast and we can do it. I ain't doing that. That's stupid.

Unknown Speaker  34:37  
Absolutely. You know you you almost got to do the opposite. Tell them not to do something then maybe they'll want to

Unknown Speaker  34:43  
know their solid psychology. That's, that's right. So you got an eighth grader and your younger one is what grade

Unknown Speaker  34:51  
I want his 12 and one who is 14 so my daughter is 12.

Unknown Speaker  34:55  
Boy, welcome to the world of teenagers.

Unknown Speaker  34:59  
It's for us. Man I mean, I luckily I have an office that I just sort of, like crawl into in the morning, do my work and, and then go and then come out and break up some fights later on in the night. So

Unknown Speaker  35:16  
yeah, you know, my, my cousin actually said it best I heard and I heard him say, you know, my son turned turn 13 He went to bed one night rolled over on his side, and his brains fell out of his head. And I've been dealing with that ever since?

Unknown Speaker  35:34  
Yeah, I don't I don't, you know, I don't blame them. I can't imagine being a teenager during this time and the era, you know, the post pandemic era, I wouldn't know what to do with myself, I wouldn't know who to be or, or, you know, it's very strange time where, you know, everybody's sort of questioning who they are, what they, how they feel, what they mean to the world. And, you know, it's easy to say, I came from a simpler time where, you know, things were a little bit more cut dry. And maybe they weren't as what we thought they were, but at least we believe they were so

Unknown Speaker  36:06  
yeah. And then we had movies like Carrie, where she was being bullied, and then she just, she, she got back at them in a big way.

Unknown Speaker  36:15  
I mean, yeah, I mean, it's great to see that even back then there were stories where, you know, people could get redemption. Now it is, I mean, bullying is terrible. And I'm glad that, that society really started to understand it, you know, and kind of help people because, you know, you know, I remember growing up, people were bullied all the time, and it just wasn't talked about, you know, you went home, and you didn't say anything to your parents, you know, it was a part of your life, it was part of the fabric of your world, you know, the bigger kids were going to pick on the smaller kids, it was just a given, you know, and it made you stronger in some ways in. But you know, nowadays, we, we realize that we need to protect the people. So I'm glad that things are starting to turn around.

Unknown Speaker  36:54  
I am too. And you mentioned Ashanti earlier. And she and her twin sister were bullied when they were in middle school, and she has become a real strong advocate for anti bullying programs. And I think that's awesome. I think

Unknown Speaker  37:10  
it's great, you know, things are starting to turn around. I mean, you know, I think I think everybody's having such a tough time, because there's so much in the last, you know, even five years, there has been so much change in our society. And change is hard for everybody. But you know, whatever, change that we think is bad, there are a lot of really good changes that are happening. So it's always good to, you know, just kind of, you know, ignore the things that push your buttons, and be happy that there are things that are getting better.

Unknown Speaker  37:40  
Well, since you've got a couple of teenagers, I assume they each have a smartphone. Right? And of course, you know, people that say, you know, they're just kids that don't need a smartphone, I disagree with that. Because I think that you need to be able to get in contact with your child at all times.

Unknown Speaker  37:55  
Absolutely. And that's always the conversation I have with my wife, even you know, it's like, we can protect them from everything, but you know, in a way that we're going to be shielding them from their own, you know, their own era, their own, you know, they're not going to fit in when they get out of the house if they don't have these things that everybody else does. So it's a double edged sword i, we gave our our kids cell phones late in the game, like more recently, like this past year, just so we can give them a little fighting chance against, you know, social media and who they are. And, but there's never any right answer for it.

Unknown Speaker  38:30  
I can't imagine what it would be like, and you are living it because you've got a couple of teenagers. Right? What it's like when when they get called out on social media, or there's a thing going on in the school or whatever in there. That must be horrible.

Unknown Speaker  38:48  
Yeah, I mean, I mean, I, I think luckily, since the pandemic, we we've been homeschooling our children, so they don't really have that kind of, you know, almost that the fabric of people around them kind of kind of getting in their heads. So it's a little different for us, but I can't imagine you know, the stress and, and what it would take to just navigate your normal life with it with cameras around you all of your life. It would be tough.

Unknown Speaker  39:18  
Oh, yeah. And when when I was growing up, we used to have fire alarms. Now that Intruder alert alarms where they you hide under your desk or you you know, I just can't imagine it makes it tough. It's tough, you know, but homeschooling is good. And now do you do you have a degree?

Unknown Speaker  39:39  
Yeah, I actually got my English degree and I got a marketing degree just I wanted to be able to market my books a bit so I got my master's in marketing in my bachelor in English. I took as many English classes as I could I kind of you know, all the all the classic books that they they give to you in college. I wanted that experience. So, I did that. And I think, um, I think I feel like, I don't think I would have changed me as a writer, but it changed my maybe my outlook about how books are presented.

Unknown Speaker  40:11  
Have you have you thought about being a marketer, because you've got a master's degree in marketing, to opening up a marketing, because I can tell you this, that there are lots of really, really talented writers who really suck at marketing?

Unknown Speaker  40:24  
Yeah, well, you know, it's a hard business, it really is. Even with a marketing degree, sometimes I'm like, I feel helpless. Just because, you know, you, a lot of times, I think it's the way just the way the music businesses going, people want to just, you know, artists want to just give their stuff away. They just want they want their, their creation in people's hands. And it's not even about money, really, at this point. For a lot of people. They're just like, you know, here's what I created, I want to share it with you. You know, obviously, you can't do that you can't make a living at that. But, you know, that's the feeling that you get when you write something or you create anything really

Unknown Speaker  41:01  
well. And that's, that's why I always say, because I do interviewed quite a few musicians right now, I always say, Please, buy their music, streaming. Absolutely. They make nothing if you stream it, and if you buy it. And I mean, we're talking about a buck and a quarter or something like that. It doesn't cost you a lot to buy it but but support the musician support the author's Speaking of which, if somebody wants to buy your latest book throwing shadows, how can they is it on Amazon and everywhere?

Unknown Speaker  41:30  
Absolutely. Yeah. My publisher is Bridget's gate press, you can get on their website, or you can get on Amazon. It's on available there. Or my website, Jerry Roth author.com. Many ways to buy it. And yeah, I think it's one of those books that if you this is the perfect time of the year to be reading it right before Christmas, right? It's a spooky time where you want to just, you know, dig into something a little bit more spooky and creepy. This would be the one for you.

Unknown Speaker  42:00  
Right before Halloween. This is the time to get this book. Absolutely. And then instead of handing out candy, you can just turn out all the lights go into your bedroom and get scared yourself to

Unknown Speaker  42:10  
death. Well, last year, we mean a family we did a we did for they invited me as well as a local writer, they invited me to do a trunk or treat and dress up and pass out candy. So as a family we we dressed up as the Addams Family. Absolutely. And I gave out candy and bookmarks on my book. So hopefully, no kids have read it but all only their parents.

Unknown Speaker  42:40  
Oh, that's, that's really that's really cool. My son one time for Halloween, he put a chair in the front porch. And he and he put a black suit on himself and covered his face. Like a mannequin with a bowl of candy right in his lap. Oh, that's great. And so the kids had to come up and then and in the look on some of them. They were real, was fake. And then if they if some Cavalier kid came up and said all that's just fake, and then he would reach out with his hands and grab them when they're grabbing the candy. Oh, some of the screams that come out of people. It's pretty amazing. Oh,

Unknown Speaker  43:19  
that's great. Yeah, that's, that's the best. I mean, when I was a kid, I used to do all the haunted houses and nothing like that feeling of being unsuspected. And then frightened. When you don't even think it's happening. It's gonna happen.

Unknown Speaker  43:32  
Yeah, when you when you get to put your hand in something that you don't know what it is, and they tell you what's brains? Looks like, you know, it's kind of like, yeah, so I don't anymore. I'm old now I'd probably pee my pants. So, so Jerry, tell, tell our audience, the folks that are listening now. And the ones who will be listening later, I would really like you to kind of open up and then tell us anything that you would like them to know about the work that you do, about what your motivation is your passion, all that stuff?

Unknown Speaker  44:07  
Well, I think, you know, I only think that I really would like to say is that, you know, I, I cherish my readers and I love that people will take the time and the effort to buy my books. And to review them. There is no I mean, like, nothing touches my heart more because I I put a lot of effort and a lot of love into my books, even though they're scary. And I want to like really kind of give something back to them. So every time that I get any kind of message from someone say, Oh, I love your book, or I couldn't sleep at night or I had to take it off of my dresser because I didn't want to see it. That means more to me than anything else. I'm just happy that I can kind of share that with the people around me.

Unknown Speaker  44:56  
That's it. That's that's pretty cool. So this is So your book may not be found on the back of very many bathrooms.

Unknown Speaker  45:04  
I don't I you know, it's, I think it's fine. They're okay. They'll be alright.

Unknown Speaker  45:11  
So I really think that you have the talent to be like the next, Stephen King.

Unknown Speaker  45:17  
Oh, that's Oh, that's too much. Thank you. I appreciate that. He is, you know, he is. He is my, he's like, to me, the perfect writer, you know, he, his imagination is incredible. Even his sons now now and his sons. Both are, you know, prolific writers and, and if I could even be even close to what they can do, you know, in the span of rest of my life, I'd be grateful.

Unknown Speaker  45:42  
We know what it was fun is that one of my favorite movies of all time, the name escapes me right now. It will come to me, Rob Reiner. Director then. Based upon the body, a short story by Stephen King.

Unknown Speaker  45:55  
Absolutely. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker  45:58  
Yeah, there was I touched him by me. Stand by him. Thank you. Yes. Thank you very much. And and there was so much meat to that original story that they were able to build out an entire movie around that around the premise of

Unknown Speaker  46:14  
it. Absolutely. The same with a if you've ever seen The Shawshank Redemption. I mean, that was I think it might have been a novella, something shorter than a novel. And I mean, think about that movie, how much how much detail how much creation and world building is in that or The Green Mile. I mean, he's done his some of his best work have nothing to do with or whatsoever. He's just, he's just a prolific writer.

Unknown Speaker  46:41  
He wrote The Green Mile. Yeah. I had no, I did not know. Actually, that's one of my favorite movies of all time.

Unknown Speaker  46:49  
He did the Running Man, too. Did you watch that?

Unknown Speaker  46:51  
I did. So, so. So have you thought now that you've been doing novels and stuff, and you've got this one out? Have you thought about going back to screenwriting? You know, I

Unknown Speaker  47:02  
see. I, I'll be honest with you, I see a lot of the over since the pandemic, it seems that the quality of movies has kind of gone down. I don't I don't know what it is, like, maybe it could be me. Maybe my tastes have changed. But I mean, you know, eight out of 10 movies I've watched now I just want to even finish it. I mean, that I mean, that tells me that I wish that they would maybe not me, but somebody would really step up and say, you know, we got to put some more heart into these movies, something that's going to last a lifetime. And you know, a lot. I mean, that's always been, I guess the argument is, you know, mains, there's mainstream movies, and then there's a coffeehouse movies, there's there's that, you know, I feels like everything is moving towards the mainstream movies nowadays.

Unknown Speaker  47:48  
Well, what I enjoyed special effects when it was like when Star Wars first came out, right? And it enhanced the story. Sure, but when the special effects become the story, then and then they don't put enough money or time or effort into the screenplay. Because it's, they're spending so much time on this special effects. It's, it's to me, it's a waste of time.

Unknown Speaker  48:16  
I agree. I, I think there's a shift now with movies that they're going they're purposely going back to practical effects, you know, like they did in Ghostbusters. The original Ghostbusters, you know, half of that wasn't CGI. Even though you think it is, you know that it was practical effects that you make a movie. And I think it you know, there's I think our eyes are so used to seeing CGI, and we've seen so many movies that have CGI is that we're getting hip to it. We see it right away now, you know, used to be in the old days of Jurassic Park came out man, which still holds up. But you you're fooled. You're like this is incredible. How are they doing this? This magic they're making. But we're smarter now as audiences and the more you lean on CGI, the less we're interested I think

Unknown Speaker  49:03  
I agree with you because there's a human element that ends up being missing. Right? It's it's like the I don't know if you've ever watched it. But there was a movie about the war at the Galapagos. There the 300 Spartans. Oh, wow. That's the newer one that was also an older one. Okay. That was the original one that that was based on. And that one was on so much having to do with the human element of what it was like being 300 soldiers that were facing a million people. And then they all ended up being killed and but because the 300 there was so many special effects and you have elephants and you had giraffes and it's like, oh, man,

Unknown Speaker  49:45  
it was a spectacle, you know? Yeah, I like it, but it was a spectacle.

Unknown Speaker  49:50  
Yeah, in the end Well, I'm I'm more old school. I like to you know, the anyway, I guess I'm I haven't watched for a while. up past 2000 I'm trying to get better at it but

Unknown Speaker  50:05  
a watch party you and me we'll watch, we'll watch a movie and we'll bring you back into into the fold.

Unknown Speaker  50:10  
If it's a horror movie, I may end up on your lap. Because they scare me, and but you know, but even like, what was a Hannibal? That was that one was more? You never saw him actually eat anybody? I don't recall. Yeah, but it was a very scary movie at the same time.

Unknown Speaker  50:33  
Right? I think the best movies are the ones that they talk about what happened? Then what happened? You know, it's kind of like Star Wars, all the mythology, when you saw the first Star Wars. And then when they told those stories and mythology with, you know, the prequels, then you kind of lost, its, you know, it's like, wasn't as great you wanted to you wanted to mystery, something you couldn't see or feel or touch. But you thought about

Unknown Speaker  50:56  
exactly. And it made a tough minute, by the way, we've been talking with Jerry Roth, He is an author. He's a screenwriter, and he's got a new book out is called throwing shadows, that dark collection, a dark collection. And it's a collection of nine stories, and the hands, it's got something creepy for just about everybody. So regardless of what your creepy tastes are, you can be creeped out by this book.

Unknown Speaker  51:22  
Yep, there's a story for everyone in there. So I didn't, I tried to be I tried to use the stories that would kind of fit well together, but kind of it beat scary but different genres, because I know that the hardest thing to get reviewed is collections and anthologies. You know, if you're, if you're reviewing somebody, and you're giving them five stars, you know, if you find two stories out, um, you don't like you've already lost the battle. So I understand that people want perfection and collections. And that's why I tried my best to least give people as close to, you know, a perfect book that I could give.

Unknown Speaker  52:00  
And I think that you've accomplished it here. And then you're doing, you're doing what you love, and you're following your passion. And I have to ask you, though, when you when your 14 year old goes to somebody's house, and so what does your dad do for a living? Oh, he writes horror movie, or how does that go over with a neighbor's?

Unknown Speaker  52:20  
You know, there's always that they're always that, like, they were really surprised. And then they're, they're intrigued. They're like, Oh, I wonder what their home life is like. And it doesn't help that I bought a 1908 Catholic Church to live in a church, a horror writer, you know, that my neighbor asked me and they said, you know, they saw me in a paper and in a local paper than people talked about my first book, bottom feeders about the devil, who's in it. And he I met him for the first time and he seemed like a super nice guy. And he says, so let me get this straight. You are a horror writer who writes about the devil who bought a Catholic church. You think that's a good idea? And I honestly said, No, it's not a good idea.

Unknown Speaker  53:07  
Today, now that I know that the church has been refurbished, and it's, it's now a home, it's just looks like our church from the Absolutely. So you don't have any confessional booths that are still in there? No, no, just my office? Yeah, you could just put your 14 year old and a confessional booth and know more about life than

Unknown Speaker  53:25  
you. Yeah, exactly.

Unknown Speaker  53:29  
By and by the way, I got to ask you, because you've done a bunch of these this week, you've done like, 10 podcasts as we, you know, like, how, how did we do?

Unknown Speaker  53:39  
Listen, you were the most engaging I've ever seen, then thank you for that, you know, I I've loved to just be able to like it feels like time has just flown by. I could probably sit and talk to you and maybe have a beer with you right now afterwards and, and keep the conversation going.

Unknown Speaker  53:58  
I love that. I'll give you my address. But by the time you get here, the beer will be warm. Hey, I'll make it because we're where he is your your church or your house, Ohio. That would be a while. That would be a while.

Unknown Speaker  54:13  
So you live in California or Seattle, Seattle. Sorry. But I have a friend who lives in California and other author of Salomon pictures and he's so you guys do you guys is you share the same climate in Seattle, California?

Unknown Speaker  54:28  
No, really, we're a lot colder than they are generally speaking, although this year has been really weird. Okay, it's been we broke the number of days that are 90 plus all time, and we had the fewest rain in the summer that we've ever had. Not that there's global warming or anything, but I don't want to go there. But

Unknown Speaker  54:48  
yeah, don't open that can of worms. Yes, but

Unknown Speaker  54:51  
it would be great fun. If you ever get out this way. I'd love to. I'd love to have a beer with you. Absolutely. Yeah. And by the way, if you're if you can't some of the show, but not all of it, we he's going to be on K K nw 11:50am. Tomorrow at noon pacific time. So you can redo this, then. And then he's going to have, he's going to be on YouTube. He's on Facebook, he's on Twitter, he'll be on all the major podcast channels and all that kind of stuff down the road so that you can, you can go back and you can listen to this episode. I have been thoroughly entertained. I hope somebody else has been to.

Unknown Speaker  55:29  
Well, I appreciate you having me on. You're amazing. And I hope that you even after tomorrow when I'm doing your radio show that you consider having me back on we can chat some more.

Unknown Speaker  55:39  
Absolutely, absolutely. You're, you're one of those guy was like, I've got a good friend. He's become a good friend through the show. Right? And it's Tommy T guy, and he is a musician in Finland. Okay. And so there are there are people that that I genuinely just as human beings like what you're doing and like who you are. And you're one of those. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker  55:59  
thank you. I appreciate that. It's, it's

Unknown Speaker  56:01  
I have more fun doing this. Yeah, I gotta tell you, you'd love doing a podcast because this is more fun than I'm allowed than a human should be allowed to have.

Unknown Speaker  56:08  
I know I'm jealous. What am I doing with my life?

Unknown Speaker  56:13  
Your skin scaring the pants off of people?

Unknown Speaker  56:15  
Yeah, I wouldn't be in Seattle doing the show. I need that. That's cool.

Unknown Speaker  56:19  
Well, you're gonna be on the show tomorrow at noon, and that it'll be broadcast all throughout Seattle. So all right. I can't wait to meet everybody. Absolutely. Is there anything else you'd like to add? Before we go? No,

Unknown Speaker  56:29  
I just want to say thank you to everyone out there who constantly watches me bombard your airwaves with all these promos and trying to sell my book. And if you are interested in a little book that scares you, please pick up throwing shadows, a dark collection from Bridget's gate press. And it's available now and I and if somebody that you know that wants to be scared, please feel free to pick it up or visit my website, Jerry Roth author.com. And who knows, maybe in the future, I'll sign a few for you. So thank you a lot.

Unknown Speaker  57:02  
We'll call them we'll call your books thoroughly engaging. Okay? Because you can't put them down when you're in the middle of one of the stories because you want to find out what the hell is going to happen and how, what, what poor thing what poor thing is gonna happen. Who's getting tortured next. Exactly. And by the way, let's hide behind the chainsaws.

Unknown Speaker  57:25  
Yes. Oh, I love that commercial.

Unknown Speaker  57:29  
At the very end of it, did you catch the very end of it when they sent the

Unknown Speaker  57:32  
rolls? I love it when the serial killer rolls his eyes at the at the dumb teenagers.

Unknown Speaker  57:39  
They start running again as let's go to the cemetery. And I grew up with you when I was little we lived next to a cemetery. Oh man. In fact, there was a crematorium there. And then occasionally there would be smoke coming out of it. And it would scare all of us because it's like sitting there burning somebody in there. Kevin, you

Unknown Speaker  58:00  
got a book and you I can see it right now.

Unknown Speaker  58:05  
I have got some stories I do have. But it's been as Jerry it's been really a pleasure. And I look forward to hanging out with you tomorrow on KK and W and and congratulations on your book. I hope it sells a million copies. Thank you so much. And I can't wait to see you tomorrow. It'll be fun. So and by the way, it's time for dinner for you and the kids and all that kind of stuff. So do you have an other in the in the church?

Unknown Speaker  58:31  
Oh, yeah. We got all the utilities here. We're stepping up

Unknown Speaker  58:37  
now then. Is it also because churches tend to be drafty? Is it also kind of drafty or is it hasn't been?

Unknown Speaker  58:44  
We have cathedral ceilings and you know, we're heating the useless space up there all the time. So we're, you know, it's one of those things where you can't really control it. You just gotta live with it.

Unknown Speaker  58:57  
Now, before I before we go, I gotta ask her did because obviously you're married. Yes. Yeah. What did your wife think when you when you brought her over to look at the church that is now a house did

Unknown Speaker  59:12  
you know I can blame it on her but she liked it as much as I did. So yeah, we fell in love with the place right away and had so much character you know, it was built 114 years ago, you can't really you can't find anything else out there like it. We do have the occasional back because it is a church and you know, so that's one thing she doesn't like every once in a while, maybe once a year a little battle come in and scare the you know, scared to death. But other than that, we love it.

Unknown Speaker  59:42  
As long as the bad doesn't turn into a human though. We're waiting for that. That's, that's in your next book. Jerry Thank you very much. I'll see you tomorrow on K K NW. 11:50am. And I want to thank everybody for listening by the way you got four thumbs up in the in since we've been doing this so can Thank you. Yeah. So it's been a great episode. And I've enjoyed it thoroughly. And, and I mean it sincerely I wish to I hope that you sell a million copies and that one of your books get picked up for a screenplay. And then I can say, I knew him when.

Unknown Speaker  1:00:19  
And I'll do your show then too. So

Unknown Speaker  1:00:21  
don't worry. I'm gonna hold you to that. So thank you so much. And if you'll wait right there, I got to do this, and I'll be right back. All right. Thanks, Kevin. Hey, thanks for enjoying this episode, all the way to the end. Please give us a like and subscribe to this channel. This has been a production of positive talk radio.net Please visit our website oddly named positive talk radio.net. For more details about us and our mission, which is to provide great positive programming designed to inspire us all. I'm Kevin McDonald. I'm proud of these shows, and I truly hope that you'll like them and share them with friends and family. So on behalf of our entire team, remember, be kind to one another because each other's all we gotta

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